T O P

PSA And while we're at it: Stop putting a space between the last letter and the exclamation mark and/or question mark.

PSA And while we're at it: Stop putting a space between the last letter and the exclamation mark and/or question mark.

j14three

I had a nun teach me how to type in grade school. If I stop doing double space she will haunt me.


the_kid1234

And smack your knuckles with a ruler!


calientenv

I got hit with a ruler in the cloak room for making a fancy eight. She said I made two circles, I didn't I was being different, artistic I loved it until all hell broke lose. A great way to crush a kid's spirit..fuck those bitches.


mewdebbie61

Reawaken your spirit and make your circle 8’s!!! Write with curly q’s and flourish your differences and artistic self!! (And I will STILL put two spaces after my periods!!)


damonholton

That's assault brotha! She could do a nickel for that!!


CreedenceFearwater

From now on, I will only do two circle 8s. In solidarity.


DisasterAreaDesigns

That’s how I ended up writing with my right hand…


PixelatedPooka

Same for my Dad who was in his in his 70’s. He was born a lefty and went to Catholic School in Michigan. Was a righty after a few years of hell. I’ve heard they have reformed.


thnksqrd

Sounds sinister to me.


BlazeKnaveII

How old are you? My mom is almost 80 and left to be a lefty. Her dad got the ruler and switched to right.


DisasterAreaDesigns

The correct question is how old was the nun at the time. This happened in the early 1980s and Sister Mary Ellen had to have been at least 60 at the time.


Madertheinvader

My father in law went to catholic school in NY in the 50s. He said the nuns would force feed them spoonfuls of mustard if they misbehaved. To this day he doesn't use condiments of ANY kind. They scarred him for life.


damonholton

That's the least of the horror stories coming out of the catholic church, bunch of sadist they are 😈


BjOaNmEzR

>To this day he doesn't use condiments of ANY kind. That's fucked up. Not even salt or pepper? Whats the point in living that way?


Suggett123

"Everything tastes like Styrofoam now." -Patty Bouvier


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plantbbgraves

This is the strongest argument I’ve found so far.


SuccinctSavage

I'm in my 20s. In 8th grade, I was taught to always double space. Is that not the case for essays or emails anymore?


plantbbgraves

Omg I thought you were saying you’re 20 and in the eighth grade. I think I’m slow today haha I am also in my 20’s and I was never taught that as far as I know, though I do have a vague recollection from primary school 🤔 like, grade k or 1. Never came up again. As per this post, no, it’s not necessary unless otherwise specified.


SaltMineSpelunker

Ex-Cath. Went to a convent and they had a little graveyard where all the old nuns were buried. I straight up tried to get super powers there. ​ ![gif](giphy|H2AqZGtF2gc8w)


David26175

details and I love Kathy Najimy


SaltMineSpelunker

I mean that is it. Pretty sure that is the most powerful place on Earth. Was waiting for lighting or a zombie attack. Sometime. Instead I got drunk a played with chickens.


omeganemesis28

God damn The Nun movie irl for sure. I still have nightmares about the ones I grew up with. One telling me dead eyed and serious that animals have no souls and when they die they're GONE I'll never get over


skiddelybop

Did you just do a single-space here, though?


Coattail-Rider

He did. Oh lawd, she comin’.


Vitekr2

Dont tell me how to live.


Mackheath1

**They can pry that second space out of my cold, dead hands.** I will fight for the Oxford Comma, as well.


Wienderful

Came here to say this. I am 43, and I will die on this hill. (And the Oxford comma hill as well.)


Mackheath1

I'm with you and about the same age. We need solidarity.


andheresanicecomment

I will die on this hill if only because I cannot change the two spaces that are ingrained in my very fingers as muscle memory at this point. You can’t make me do this….even if it makes sense……just nooooooo


BackBae

I use the Oxford comma but won’t be caught dead double spacing after a period. Is this why people try to make the concept of “microgenerations” a thing?


bluerose1197

I spend half my week at work removing extra spaces from documents. It wouldn't bother to have them double so much if people were at least consistent. But half the document will have one space and half two and they are mixed together.


Reheated-Meme-Dealer

Can you not just Ctrl+f and look for “. “ and replace with “. “? That’s what I’ve always done and it takes like 2 seconds.


buythepotion

Shh then they’d only get paid for half a week


tattedpunk

35 years of double spaces after a period is Not a habit I can break!


cognitiveglitch

Gatekeeping the space bar.


SampleSwimming8576

Don't tell me what to tell you.


Vitekr2

Dont tell me what to tell me


bbildo

Don’t


TorrenceMightingale

Do. …not.


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UntouchedWagons

Forget about me.


michalemabelle

Say what you want, that extra space comes in handy when you're trying to make a page count.


starry_cobra

Make your periods bigger too. And extend the right margin. You can tell when the other margins have been messed with but it's pretty much impossible to tell with the right one


cryptic-coyote

I really milked the line spacing settings in high school. Increase by tiny fractions of inches, nobody will notice.


knock-off-pale

Right. The 15 font period trick is easy to catch with a Ctrl+a and the font size doesn't show up. Dead give-away. Edit: to everyone saying just submit as a PDF... Yes, that's what I do these days but this thread is about double spaces after periods which alot of people are saying they have been doing for years, a habit they picked up to pad page lengths for school papers. When I was in high school, we turned papers in by emailing a .doc file along with handing in a printed copy. Another trick I've heard about for that is just making all the periods 15pt font size. That didn't work when I was in high school because the teachers all got wise and would Ctrl+a and check the font size box. If there wasn't anything in that box, they knew someone tried the "heavy flow" trick. But they didn't know about other more subtle line spacing and paragraph sizing tricks. Either way, the specific reasons I'm talking about had specifically to do with how we used to try to pad 2-3 page papers when I was in high school in 2000-2004. Idk what the kids do today.


Dhawkeye

Unless, of course, you’re handing it in physically


IamTheUniverse_AMA

Yeah, for the 8 of us that exist in 2003


Theoroshia

How is it? How's Limp Bizkit?


getnakedhavefun

Just covered a The Who song for a second rate horror movie, it is their last real gasp of fame.


Mrfrunzi

And it was terrible but we all still watched the video for some reason


No-Definition1474

My ge ge generation!


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potatthrowaway

God damn it, I'm officially old. I don't think I ever sent in an assignment until I was in college. Granted, the schools I went to were mostly pretty rural, literally in the middle of fields, and we're a bit antiquated in all ways


mcraneschair

You Ctrl+F for hyphens, commas, apostrophes, colons, etc. Set those half a size to a size bigger (like 1pt not 2pt more) depending on font. Search for a space and make the size a whole point larger. Makes a world of a difference. Also, Georgia and Bookman Oldstyle are the widest fonts.


SC2McGosu

That font trick with the periods actually changes the spacing between the lines. Makes it so the entire row is spaced to the max font size. I never got caught when I did that in school, but I noticed it for sure.


SovietBozo

or just do "--" for hyphens. The did this in the typewriter era. Gets you an extra character.


[deleted]

-- is for em dashes, not hyphens.


GG-00

em-dash vs en-dash (hyphen).


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stalinwasballin

As a graduate assistant, I learned that increased font size for punctuation but not the letters also reduced word count per page…


OpticGenocide

I feel that the punctuation hits harder when it**'**s increased font size**.** I want my professors to really feel my periods**.**


anacctnamedphat

You go girl!


aravind_plees

Not the bloodshed we were expecting when you woke up and chose violence


wtph

You what #?


Veteran_Brewer

r/YesyesyesNo


nathansikes

did you just...?


pvirushunter

Georgia font. Looks like Times Roman, but easier to read. And yes it takes up more space.


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SilentSamurai

A lot of the submission sites already analyze paper formatting. If your teacher wants to be a stickler on that, they have the tools. Easier just to write more than try and get around it.


Enlightened_Gardener

I’ve always preferred Georgia. Times New Roman is too spiky.


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Trixxonite

I did this as well back in my paper writing days. Not for word/page count, though that was an added bonus, but due to the fact that (in my mind) it reads much more formal and makes the point of your statement stronger.


michalemabelle

& it was also taught as proper MLA formatting


drawnblud260

I am unable to can (I can't)


GhostofSancho

One of my English teachers in high school docked points if we used contractions because they were "too casual" for essay writing. I had it hammered in to me never to use them for "real" writing


Binger_bingleberry

Me too… Contractions in professional writing makes my skin crawl because of this


TheBirminghamBear

Word count is such a preposterously stupid and lazy metric for a paper. I could game the hell out of the word count system. All it does is incentivize people to make grotesquely overlong sentences and rambling paragraphs that never actually make an argument but buff the hell out of your word count.


Masticatron

Minimum word counts I don't much care for, but in principle they make it clear when you've a shallow comprehension. Arbitrarily extended sentences stick out like a sore thumb dressed in Christmas lights and a bright neon sign of an arrow pointing at it. But mostly it's just mandating a minimum effort, but not necessarily productive effort. Maximum word counts I'm more a fan of. Like essay prompts they act as constraints forcing creative approaches and focus.


woopledoer

One time I asked my college professor if the paper had a length requirement. He said the paper should be a woman's skirt: long enough to cover the subject, but short enough to keep things interesting. Great teacher.


his_rotundity_

For academic writing, shouldn't you be avoiding contractions anyway?


LabyrinthineChef

Probably shouldn’t be using contractions in super formal writing anyway


Maury_Finkle

According to my college professors you're already not supposed to use contractions like that


positivfeedback

Are you 10? Everyone knows not to use contractions in academic writing.


kingdomheartsislight

This isn’t exactly a useful tip; you’re not supposed to use contractions in formal writing.


calucas55

Damn straight.


Jem_1

If you do footnotes for whatever it is do it before the full stop because then the full stop counts as a word without showing up as a grammatical error


Psykerr

Was really happy to have professors that had a “suggested” page count. The entire department used the concept. Pretty much a tried and true “if your paper is lower than this page count we doubt you did a thorough job but we’re open to being proved wrong” vs a “anything less and you fail. Enjoy padding your paper with shit.”


Geo_Seven

Nope. You gettin an oxford comma too


Sharp-Floor

Oxford comma is still usually part of style guides. You're safe on that one.


Cruxion

Perhaps my schools were underfunded because our style guides always said *not* to use them. But I did anyway since they clear up potential confusion. EDIT: Seems like I need to look at a style guide again.


SpaceCrone

[why the Oxford comma is necessary](https://annhandley.com/ah/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Oxford-comma-explained.png)


jamesianm

My favorite example will always be [this one.](https://stancarey.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/socratic-tweet-oxford-comma-on-mandela-800-year-old-demigod-and-dildo-collector.jpg)


motorboat_mcgee

Oh no


BreakingGaia

This made me snort really loud. 😂


Catoctin_Dave

Your school's what?


Bleyo

Looks like he used the Biloxi Apostrophe.


confettibukkake

AP is the big style guide that's against it. If you're not a journalist or writing for a news outlet, you're probably good to use it.


Sharp-Floor

Even AP isn't strictly against it.


raisinghellwithtrees

AP style forbids them. I hate it! I often have to reword a sentence for clarity when it would be perfectly understandable with an Oxford comma.


htimsj

There is no situation where the Oxford comma introduces confusion, but many situations where the lack of it does.


Mooreeloo

We invited the strippers, John Kennedy and Putin


LadyBonersAweigh

We just call him JFK.


kaylthewhale

That’s putin it informally


Will-Barnes

Then AP style is wrong.


jereezy

Fuck AP style, all my homies hate AP style


tinyanus

Chicago Manual of Style gang 4 lyfe


dudipusprime

MLA gang


worldspawn00

Yes.


Actual_Opinion_9000

Chicago stylebook is superior, due to the oxford comma, clarity, and less pretentiousness.


HarryTruman

But what if I want to be pretentious about the aforementioned oxford comma?


PrisonerV

Have you seen what passes for journalism these days? I saw an obvious typo in a headline on MSN's taskbar main page the other day. Unless you're in college, I don't think anybody cares anymore. Also, as a former reporter, go into something else. It pays more. Doesn't matter what it is.


dust4ngel

> AP style forbids them then they get [sentences like this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma): > highlights of his global tour include encounters with Nelson Mandela, an 800-year-old demigod and a dildo collector


goldengreenforest

I do it anyway. I will take the docked marks. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Marbled_Headcheese

At this point, it's automatic. I would actually have to make extra effort to not do it.


nigirizushi

Rule #2: Double Tap


Prysorra2

Ctrl+S twice because the 90s


exmachinalibertas

Yeah I still don't realize everything is auto-saving all the time now


Seguefare

OK young uns, why is the extra space so bothersome?


Marbled_Headcheese

Yeah I wonder about that too.


ew73

I am 100% guilty of "double spacing". I do it with everything I type, but, thankfully, almost all document processing these days fixes it for you automatically, either in MS Word style by removing it right then, or in my preferred document typesetting (LaTeX) simply ignoring it. _However_, in well type-set documents -- like ones generated with LaTeX, the actual space between a period and the beginning of a new sentence and the space between words is subtly different, with inter-sentence spacing being slightly larger than the space between words. The double space after sentences is a way for people with monospaced typewriters to (poorly) emulate the spacing used by professional typesetters. These days, we can do better with technology, and often do.


mdavis360

Because old people do it. That’s literally their reason.


SeventhSolar

Holy shit, just out of college and I'm already an old geezer.


Papayahaven

Tricks on you. I’m still in college and already a n old geezer.


Teenage-Mustache

At least don’t lump us in with the people who do this ! We know there’s no space between the last word and the ! but hitting space twice auto generates a full stop and I’m never changing.


bunnyohare

This is the correct answer.


sick_shooter

I’ma keep the two spaces after a period. Fight me. But…who’s putting spaces between the end of a word and the ending punctuation?? Never heard of that.


Zuko_Kurama

Go to a fox news comment section on YouTube. Everybody Types Like This .


twiz__

So bots?


Smithy2997

The French, I think


[deleted]

Only for ! and ? Not for regular periods. and also for ; and :


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makeitlouder

Oui!


Forgetful8nine

Shouldn't that be "Oui !"?


Cabillaud01

Yes, in French for every "double" punctuation signs, there must be a space before and after it. Examples are ;:!? " doesn't count, as we use « and ». Sorry to be so French. Love you all!


makeitlouder

Yes, how the hell did I manage to mess this up


timmytissue

My wife sometimes does cause she's french.


GMEMEG

My husband does it. It drives me bonkers


mypervyaccount

The fucking French.


JimSteak

We do it in France !


wooflee90

You might think that, but working for the Air Force, I've had multiple documents returned for correction solely because there were not two spaces after each period.


SpaceCrone

I'm 35 so I guess I'm good to keep double spacing after the period.


SolAggressive

I’m 45. It’s still a fun game to surprise a group of mixed age with this question. People my age had no idea it’s one space now. And a younger generation had no idea it was ever 2. I know this. I’ll never change. And using two spaces auto-places a period when I text.


DonaldTrumpsBallsack

But there’s still only once space after the sentence even if you do the auto period thing? Like unless the debate is to type.like.this then typing. Like. This. Is still one space, you hit backspace once and the words are touching, no? Ive never been so confused


adonisberg

Well, on phone when typing double space is a simple way to include a period. So. I. Like. That.


jzielke71

I was going to say the same thing.


turbo-cunt

...but it's not two spaces after the period. Your phone converts the first space to a period and leaves you with a period and one space


Gottadancefaster

News to me. Guess I’m complying without trying.


owlzitty

you really couldn't tell?? LIES!


BrownieEdges

I write business documentation for a living and always include two spaces after the end of a sentence. It’s easier to read because of the number of times I write Inc. in my documents.


ampma

In my case, I often refer to Figs. and Eqs. and there should only be a single space after those abbrevs. A double space at the end of a sentence is a good way to distinguish things. (aside: some journals forbid abbreviation of equation and figure and it is infuriating)


quaywest

Exactly my reason (Inc. or Ltd.). Just a bonus that it makes it easier to read. My brain knows for sure it's the end of a sentence and not me mistaking a period for a comma.


Ender914

I will die on this well spaced hill.


ButtchuggnRobitussn

Same. It looks nicer and I read that it's a little easier on people with dyslexia.


admiraljkb

Lol, it is a lot easier actually. I'm only slightly dyslexic, compensated early on, and didn't even realize it till after high school. For me specifically, a period with one space doesn't show up to my brain a lot of the time, so it becomes a run on sentence. I gather that doesn't happen on the rest of the people that keep advocating for single space? Lol


UserNameIsBob

After learning to type on a typewriter, do you know how hard it is to not hit the space bar twice after a period. Muscle memory lasts a long time.


a-bser

That extra space allows me to know whether it's a period or a comma, depending on the font


QNGR

Pretty sure that it's so ingrained into my typing that I'll never stop. And what a strange thing to get worked up about


bbildo

At least they picked a different age group this time instead of just jumping on boomers again. That part is refreshing.


QNGR

Yay! My age group is finally getting shit on too! Woot woot! Lol


Charming_Tower_188

I'm 30. I don't even register I am doing it because it was so ingrained in me as a kid (even word would give me the red squiggly line when it wasn't right on the computer) it isn't going anywhere for me.


Desact

I’m an aging writer. It’s muscle memory at this point. That thumb is just going to hit the space bar twice no matter if I want it to or not.


bks1979

Same. I've been typing for about 30 years now, so it's second nature which I'm unlikely to change. These little whippersnappers are just gonna have to stay mad about it.


DaveElizabethStrider

Not all young whippersnappers. I'm 20 and i was taught the double space.


Psyluna

I get worked up about it because part of my job is editing copy for print, but find and replace usually can usually calm any rage I might feel. Now, people who put three spaces after a period or just a row of spaces instead of a tab? Those people are monsters who deserve eternal torment.


emccm

Never. You will not even be able to pry them from my cold, dead hands.


aworldwithoutshrimp

>~~c~~old, dead hands


presidentput1n

euro old dead hands


spr402

Fuck you!!! DOUBLE SPACES (after periods) FOR LIFE!!!!!! Edit- Thanks for the awards and upvotes! Double spacers rock.


BrilliantWeb

AND DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THE OXFORD COMMA!


wiggles105

OH, I’LL START. AND I’LL CHOKE A BITCH WHO DOESN’T USE AN OXFORD COMMA. Fun fact: Oakhurst Dairy had to settle a $5 million lawsuit because Maine’s overtime law didn’t use an Oxford comma. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/think-commas-don-t-matter-omitting-one-cost-maine-dairy-n847151


ReadontheCrapper

This warmed the cockles of my Oxford Comma loving heart.


Meatchris

I'm vehemently against double spaces after a period in a variable width typeface, but I am for Oxford commas. Hmmm.


Frostbyte74

I'm adding a third space from now on just as a fuck you to all the single-spacers. The third space will set you free !


Niro5

Did you intentionally use a single space, or did reddit correct you automatically?


SF1034

I’m 34 and I was taught the double space


DaveElizabethStrider

I'm 20 and i was taught the double space


Ragnel

I will never stop.


deadeyeotdo42

Agreed


Billsrealaccount

It feels better to put the two spaces.


spelunkilingus

Actually it went beyond typewriter era a bit.


sublliminali

Seriously. Also 38 year olds weren’t learning to type on typewriters.


Kellyhascats

My company's style guide requires it, so this seems like bad advice depending on what you're doing.


NecessaryButNotSuff

It was also from the time where computers only had monospaced fonts. It took me years to recover. Thank you.


makeitlouder

Wide spacing between sentences [predates typewriters](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing). Only recently has it started to fall out of favor, and a lot of editorial style guides have switched to single-space in the last couple of decades. Gregg still says both are acceptable, and I suspect we’ll end up with a generational difference on this one. I know I’m guilty of low key judging anybody who doesn’t use the double-space in emails, etc. (It looks odd and informal to my eye). But that will probably die with my generation.


Subconscious_Desire

Double-space is easier to read. IMO Funny when I'm at the computer keyboard I almost always double. However, typing on the phones keyboard I don't. Weird...


zodar

Monospaced fonts are modern; that's why it's called Courier *New*.


Blazerblaster

I never felt constrained. It’s easier to find the beginning of sentences with double spaces after a period.


evanbartlett1

44 year old here. I've been doing it this way since 7th grade typing class. I've been doing it this way for several decades and I'll be damned if I'm going to change it now. Get off my lawn, you damned millenial hippy.


DidelphisGinny

Hahaha! 61-year old here who also learned it in Miss Jacobsen’s 7th grade typing class, too.


1P221

The original double tap. I'll never relent !


jdith123

Look here you young whippersnappers, if I want two spaces, I’ll use two spaces! It’s automatic at this point, and I can’t be bothered to remember. I need every extra brain cell to remember to make a copy _before_ I start typing on a google doc instead of saving changes at the end like any normal person.


donniebrascoreal

barton swaim, easily offended.


-SoZz-

Why ?


donniebrascoreal

Because barton swaim is in love with himself and doesn't want you to double space that's it.


Funkula

Why? = Sharp, direct, defiant Why ? = Genuine, concerned, contemplative Because! = Authoritarian, assertive Because ! = Playful, enthusiastic


Jean-Alert

In French you’re supposed to leave a space after the last letter for exclamation and question mark.


Even-Palpitation9232

You're going to have to pry that second space from my cold, dead fingertips.


plantbbgraves

Idk why everyone is roping it in with the Oxford comma. I also still cannot understand why anyone would consider the Oxford comma optional.